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Is massage therapy recognized as an therapeutic /medical procedure???
Is massage therapy recognized as an therapeutic /medical procedure???
This link is to my article on this subject, where I am not only answering this question but also proposing practical steps.
http://medicalmassage-ceu.com/article_new6.htm
You are welcome to post comments: thoughts and questions on the subject. It is important dialog for every one of us.
Best wishes.
Boris
Views: 1540
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on
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Daniel.if this true as you presented, then my conclusion is that people( thank God not a lot like this) who behaving like this are not secure, not professional, arrogant and not smart people. But the bottom line is that they are not professional.
in discussions professionals agree or disagree, or just learning. If disagree you have to explain why not, without spin, without other stuff.this kind nonprofessional behavior has nothing to do with passion and love to massage therapy.
Best wishes.
Boris
Daniel Cohen said:I think it is because we are all so passionate about what we do that emotions easily flair. We go on an aggressive defense and quickly misinterpret or see a threat. We go into the fight or flight modes. We are so quick in this field to see opposition that we can't see the support. Many things have created this defense mechanism but we should approach with logic and an open mind.
Sometimes I think we are not reading what is intended here but rather suddenly allowing frustrations to vent in the safe environment of fellow Therapists.Your friend & fellow Therapist,
Dan Cohen
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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Noel and Daniel - yes, it's true we are passionate! That's one of the things that my clients say a lot about me. I work hard and travel a lot to learn more (and Gordon, I love DVD's!!). It's challenging to stay level-headed when we are tired, doing the best we can and are behind on basic things (laundry, dishes!! OK maybe that's just me...).
Boris, I don't know about the things in your upcoming program, but it sounds fascinating!!
OK now I'm off to take care of my other passion - my horse.
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Thanks Therese.I'm glad you appreciate my posts and do like my DVDs. This upcoming program is very comprehensive, and presented in detail explanation as well hands-on demonstration. Most likely I will allow preview for free for everyone.
Best wishes.
Boris
Therese Schwartz said:Noel and Daniel - yes, it's true we are passionate! That's one of the things that my clients say a lot about me. I work hard and travel a lot to learn more (and Gordon, I love DVD's!!). It's challenging to stay level-headed when we are tired, doing the best we can and are behind on basic things (laundry, dishes!! OK maybe that's just me...).
Boris, I don't know about the things in your upcoming program, but it sounds fascinating!!
OK now I'm off to take care of my other passion - my horse.
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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on
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Boris, I honestly don't think Gordon or anyone else has attacked you or your methods. You're excited about your new program; Gordon is enthusiastic about the method he has been using for a time. No insult was intended, or implied, IMO.
After all, we are all on the same side, correct?
Peace to all. Merry Christmas to all.
== Gary
Boris Prilutsky said:Daniel.if this true as you presented, then my conclusion is that people( thank God not a lot like this) who behaving like this are not secure, not professional, arrogant and not smart people. But the bottom line is that they are not professional.
in discussions professionals agree or disagree, or just learning. If disagree you have to explain why not, without spin, without other stuff.this kind nonprofessional behavior has nothing to do with passion and love to massage therapy.
Best wishes.
Boris
Daniel Cohen said:I think it is because we are all so passionate about what we do that emotions easily flair. We go on an aggressive defense and quickly misinterpret or see a threat. We go into the fight or flight modes. We are so quick in this field to see opposition that we can't see the support. Many things have created this defense mechanism but we should approach with logic and an open mind.
Sometimes I think we are not reading what is intended here but rather suddenly allowing frustrations to vent in the safe environment of fellow Therapists.Your friend & fellow Therapist,
Dan Cohen
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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Hmm? I didnt realize that Im a destructive dysrespectful lier? I can only say what I know and do....I'm no longer on this site.
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Permalink Reply by Noel Norwick on
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Gary: FYI - You are mistaken to believe that what Boris offers is just another new program or profit motivated & trademarked methodology. What he suggests is not based his obviously passionate opinions & personal experience, it's based on carefully validated Soviet medical research, his Soviet active & passive rehabilitation and injury prevention education and having been a clinical Soviet, Israeli and USA medical and sports massage provider. Through diligent practice he learned how to consistently provide therapeutically positive outcomes in what was a lethally unforgiving political society.
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Noel, FY edification, here is my post in its entirety:
"Boris, I honestly don't think Gordon or anyone else has attacked you or your methods. You're excited about your new program; Gordon is enthusiastic about the method he has been using for a time. No insult was intended, or implied, IMO.
After all, we are all on the same side, correct?
Peace to all. Merry Christmas to all."
What the heck is wrong with everybody? Is there a full moon or something in the water????
Noel, in which sentence did I imply that Boris was interested in the least in profit?--he has posted many, many, many educational videos to youtube, and as we all know, they're free to view and download and view again. Of course he hopes to earn a few dollars with his expertise. As we all do during our careers. Noel, I am certain that my friend Boris wasn't insulted by anything I said. So why are you defensive on his behalf? Granted, I felt compelled to come to my friend Gordon's defense when I felt he was being misunderstood by my friend Boris.
Yes, I consider both Boris and Gordon to be my friends--heck, I consider every massage therapist in the nation to be my friend! After all, aren't we brothers and sisters of a relatively small, oft-maligned, sometimes-praised family of massage & bodywork practitioners?
This is the Christmas season. Let's direct our ire at those outsiders who besmirch our profession.
merry Christmas, friend Noel.
Noel Norwick said:Gary: FYI - You are mistaken to believe that what Boris offers is just another new program or profit motivated & trademarked methodology. What he suggests is not based his obviously passionate opinions & personal experience, it's based on carefully validated Soviet medical research, his Soviet active & passive rehabilitation and injury prevention education and having been a clinical Soviet, Israeli and USA medical and sports massage provider. Through diligent practice he learned how to consistently provide therapeutically positive outcomes in what was a lethally unforgiving political society.
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Gary: It seems that attack and insult was implied/intended and that we're not all on the same side. Merry Xmas and Happy New Year. :~)
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Nonsensical comment, Noel.
Noel, this is Gordon's comment: "In two years one can get an associats degree. In four a bachelors, five a masters, six a Doctors PHD. Anyone that has been working in our field 15 years or more should be familiar enough with what you are teaching.. Thats all I ment. I'm not disagreeing with anything you are teaching. Ok, its back to work.. Everyone have a great day! You too Boris.."
Is there insult and attack in the above? Evidently, Boris thought so, for he replied:
"Gordon.You said:'Anyone that has been working in our field 15 years or more should be familiar enough with what you are..'
Interesting.whyit must to be 15 years?why couldn't it be 14 years or 13 years etc.?
As you stated you are in business for more then 30 years, and only lately you started reaching results. This is your words..."
Boris and Gordon are hypersensitive to one another, obviously.My friend Gordon felt insulted, felt that his own expertise and that of therapists with his years of experience were being dissed; in defense, he made his comment that therapists with his skill level are knowledgeable enough to take care of their clients without undergoing Boris' advanced instruction.
To set the record straight on both counts, Boris was not implying that therapists are unable to achieve results with their present knowledge base; he merely offered his expertise in enhancing the skills of anyone who wants his help--nothing wrong with that, right? Gordon did not say that for the first couple decades of his practice he wasn't achieving results (as Boris said straight-up).
To the contrary, Gordon merely reiterated that in his desire to enhance his skills, a short while ago he sought education in a specialized technique taught by Dr Kaufman and Gordon is excited by the results he gets using it. He is itching to share it with us all--but is prohibited from doing so by the binding legal agreement he made with Dr Kaufman-- Nothing wrong with that, is there, Noel?
"We're not all on the same side," you said. I wasn't aware there was an undeclared war going on here.
I refuse to be boxed in on this side or that side--I have been in the past, but will not be again. This is not a sandbox; we are not kiddies.
Boris is a businessman/instructor as well as a healer. Gordon is a highly skilled practitioner, happily a "mere" healer. I suspect that both men would be treating clients for free if they were independently wealthy. We are all on the only side available to healers: we all want what is best for clients.
Noel Norwick said:Gary: It seems that attack and insult was implied/intended and that we're not all on the same side. Merry Xmas and Happy New Year. :~)
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Boris, am I assuming correctly that you think I'm insecure, arrogant, stupid, and not professional? Or are you referring to someone else?
Boris Prilutsky said:Daniel.if this true as you presented, then my conclusion is that people( thank God not a lot like this) who behaving like this are not secure, not professional, arrogant and not smart people. But the bottom line is that they are not professional.
in discussions professionals agree or disagree, or just learning. If disagree you have to explain why not, without spin, without other stuff.this kind nonprofessional behavior has nothing to do with passion and love to massage therapy.
Best wishes.
Boris
Daniel Cohen said:I think it is because we are all so passionate about what we do that emotions easily flair. We go on an aggressive defense and quickly misinterpret or see a threat. We go into the fight or flight modes. We are so quick in this field to see opposition that we can't see the support. Many things have created this defense mechanism but we should approach with logic and an open mind.
Sometimes I think we are not reading what is intended here but rather suddenly allowing frustrations to vent in the safe environment of fellow Therapists.Your friend & fellow Therapist,
Dan Cohen
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Gary: LOL at your response. What this discussion thread has made very clear to me is why massage is not generally considered to be a valid form of medical therapy. After you read and possibly consider the following, I would appreciate your posting your definition of the word "nonsensical" and describing how it properly describes my prior (and current post)?
1. Re the actual current value of many years of education, you might consider what is reported by:
http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/student-loan-default-rates-in...
http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/whatsitworth-comp...
2. The number of years someone spends doing something doesn't necessarily mean that they are becoming ever more accurate, efficient, effective and consistent at producing a desired/predicted outcomes. Sadly, many repeatedly do the same thing while expecting a different outcome to eventually occur. True professionals have been educated/trained/mentored in their field's basic technical skills and then having mastered the basics, strive to establish their own distinctive performance style. Those who succeed are constantly striving for improvement based on reality testing their technical skills, guiding principles and professional practices against their predicted and objectively measured performance outcomes ( See: http://www.psy.fsu.edu/faculty/ericsson.dp.html ). Sadly, the Massage Therapy Body of Knowledge project proved that our field has yet to agree on the knowledge, basic/foundational technical skills and client outcomes an entry level practitioner must be able to perform and consistently achieve. Given the lack of an agreed upon definition of what constitutes basic massage therapy, how can one credibly/objectively distinguish it from what constitutes advanced practice (http://www.mtbok.org/ )?
3. It would be nice if all massage therapists wanted was what is best for their clients. Yes, you do seem to be unaware of the publicly declared "war" between what regulators and the general public appear to consider practically indistinguishable massage modalities: The most recent example is the AOBTA (American Oriental Bodywork Therapies of Asia) which sought and was "distinguished" from massage therapy by the U.S. Department of Education. See page 10 of the December 2011 issue of MASSAGE magazine. FYI - Through the years I have observed Reiki , Reflexology, CranioSacral associations and others striving to legally distinguish their trademarked forms of practice from massage regulations.
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Noel, does the word "asinine" please you more? Your response has little to do with the ego-argument between two skilled therapists that you apparently wish to escalate into a conflagration.
It was late when I last responded to you. But, still, I did a fair job of explaining the argument between the two men (both friends of mine).
You are correct, in that years of practice certainly don't mean a thing if one keeps doing the same thing over and over without growing...without learning from mistakes This certainly is not true of Gordon, who constantly strives to improve his already formidable skills. I was a trucker for 23+ years, not long enough to learn everything there is to know about handling a 72' rig on snow and ice and in NYC traffic-- but long enough to discover that NO ONE ever learns all there is to know about any subject under the sun.
I am certain that my friend Boris admits straight up that he too is just a fallible human...that his pronouncements should not be considered as the gospel. Boris is a professional, and as such realizes that other therapists may employ different techniques than Boris uses and still achieve beneficial results for their clients. For instance, Ben Benjamin's techniques vary in significant ways from those employed by his close friend Tom Myers, and yet they both are recognized masters of therapeutic massage/bodywork.
You branched from the thread into a discussion of the energy modalities, maybe to display your mastery of the subject. Me? I am a massage/bodywork student, unlicensed for another few months; I don't claim mastery of any subject, not even over-the-road long haul trucking, which I practiced for more than two decades. It just now occurred to me that perhaps your argument with Gordon stems from your belief that he is promoting magic energy touch of some kind vs. Boris' clinical therapies. If so, you are very very wrong.
Gordon employs hands' on manipulation of soft tissue--TP compression along with myofascial stretching to relieve pain and restore ROM. As you do, Noel. As Boris does. As I am learning to do in school and in youtube videos and in conversations with experienced therapists. At great personal expense, Gordon has learned new techniques that are easier on the client and on the therapist. How sad that he is dissed...that no one is asking for a clear description of this technique so that they too might try it, and maybe advance their own knowledge. Instead, Gordon is told that if he varies from the techniques used in Russian sports medicine some time ago then he cannot possibly be helping his clients. Gordon is senior therapist on a staff of 18 therapists: he has been pleasing clients for a very long time.
But then, when Galileo first posited his belief that the Earth circles the Sun, he too was ridiculed. Surely, Noel, you don't believe that any therapist should be ostracized for questioning dogma?
At this point, maybe we should take this little war of yours out of the public forum. You can email me directly through my massageprofessionals website, and we can slug one another till the cows come home or Christmas Eve, whichever arrives first.
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