massage and bodywork professionals
a community of practitioners
Is massage therapy recognized as an therapeutic /medical procedure???
Is massage therapy recognized as an therapeutic /medical procedure???
This link is to my article on this subject, where I am not only answering this question but also proposing practical steps.
http://medicalmassage-ceu.com/article_new6.htm
You are welcome to post comments: thoughts and questions on the subject. It is important dialog for every one of us.
Best wishes.
Boris
Views: 1540
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Noel Norwick on
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Gary: Once again you have strongly made the case as to why massage practitioners are not perceived as real professional providing medical therapy. Since you choose not to address the topic of this discussion thread, I can only wish you well and the best of good fortune in your endeavors.
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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Thanks to Boris, Noel, Daniel, Laura Allen and others who work to keep things on track here. I would like to reiterate that this is a public forum - accessible to anyone who wants to read it. It would be great if everyone who read the postings thought "wow, those people are educated, professional and have it together." Instead, those of us who want to learn something have to sort through insane postings from people having personal issues with each other. Some of us are hard headed enough to keep trying and others just give up - a loss to themselves and their clients.
Gordon - have your battle with Boris in private. I'm up front about what I've learned from you, but also have been frustrated enough with you to give up temporarily on this site. You make it difficult for the rest of us to get what we need here. Before you flame me for posting this, remember that you specifically asked us to let you know if you cause us problems. When you post about what you know and what you do, we all benefit.
Gary - I totally commend you on what you are doing! Very few people have the drive to start a new career late in life. Kudos, really! However, please stay on topic.
Before any of you point out that this post isn't on topic - yes, I know that. But I needed to say something about this.
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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on
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Therese, the last response I will make to this thread.
Boris and Gordon had their exchange, Gordon replied that he meant no insult and if such was inferred, he in essence apologized. It would have ended at that point-- it should have ended at that point. Boris should have accepted Gordon's apology/explanation in the sense it was offered. But Boris did feel insulted, and defended himself with a downright nasty, insulting comment about Gordon (which he made in response to Noel's). Daniel then tried to mediate with his sensible comment that, hey, tempers flare because we are all passionate--to which another inflammatory comment was made by Boris about Gordon (who BTW was long gone from the thread). In another effort to diffuse the ire, I made a comment extolling the virtues of both of my friends, Boris and Gordon. Noel responded to me, saying, in effect, now we know what side you are on! Side???? I am on the wrong side in this, Therese???? Boris worked to keep it on track here, and I did not? Noel criticized a fellow therapist even though the therapist (Gordon) had already apologized for his perceived criticism of Boris.
Okay, I should have stayed out of the flames. But I respect both Boris and Gordon, and tried (ineffectually it seems) to explain them to one another--and got myself flamed for the attempt. So be it. I accept my part in this distraction, and do publicly apologize. In the future I will ignore these inane personality conflicts.
But if you are going to place blame, Therese, some of the blame should be heaped on the other side, as well.
Therese Schwartz said:Thanks to Boris, Noel, Daniel, Laura Allen and others who work to keep things on track here. I would like to reiterate that this is a public forum - accessible to anyone who wants to read it. It would be great if everyone who read the postings thought "wow, those people are educated, professional and have it together." Instead, those of us who want to learn something have to sort through insane postings from people having personal issues with each other. Some of us are hard headed enough to keep trying and others just give up - a loss to themselves and their clients.
Gordon - have your battle with Boris in private. I'm up front about what I've learned from you, but also have been frustrated enough with you to give up temporarily on this site. You make it difficult for the rest of us to get what we need here. Before you flame me for posting this, remember that you specifically asked us to let you know if you cause us problems. When you post about what you know and what you do, we all benefit.
Gary - I totally commend you on what you are doing! Very few people have the drive to start a new career late in life. Kudos, really! However, please stay on topic.
Before any of you point out that this post isn't on topic - yes, I know that. But I needed to say something about this.
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Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on
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Gary. When Dr. Ross started discussion, on adequate treatment of trigger points, Gordon interrupted, absolutely in the destructive way how he did at this discussion. I mean started telling how he in five minutes can solve any problem, and absolutely disregarded topic subject. You picked up the site and you where very disrespectful and rude to Dr. Ross. Then I interrupted with good advice to you something like:
Gary you are student, even not in practice, therefore for you to address in so disrespectful way MD, who’s PhD study was dedicated to medical massage related subject, who is great hands-on practitioner and until day of today practicing medical massage, is not appropriate. Also I explain to you that “clasp knife reflex” that Gordon claiming as a therapy, is a result, of very difficult CNS disease. I also explained to you that millions of people, suffering from skeleton muscular pains, and to apply trigger point therapy as a part of orthopedic massage, is extremely important, but this people thank God do not suffering from extremely difficult neurological disease that resulting “clasp knife reflex”, and Gordon claiming he using “clasp knife reflex” for trigger point therapy is absolutely nonsense, nonprofessional and damaging to use language /terminology, because no medical health practitioner will accept us as a serious healthcare practitioners. It will be a disgrace for us to say something like this. To my very pleasant surprise you did listen to me, and it apologized to Dr. Ross for being rude to him. At the time I respected you very much . Because if person can realize the mistake, to change mine, and to apologize ,is telling about person’s qualities.
Did you read Gordon’s posts?????? after posting many replies, that most was about how good he is, he admitted, that he didn't read the original post, but finally after reading my original post he decided that everyone who after being in practice 15 years, knows it. Was this topic of my discussion????? By not reading a topic but posting whatever, is it disrespectful, nonprofessional distractions????? Absolutely.
Maybe you will listen to my advice again. You have to continue to study, in professional discussion participate by asking questions, sharing your experiences at student clinic, and to learn how not to behave, in a way Gordon did.
Gary W Addis said:Noel, FY edification, here is my post in its entirety:
"Boris, I honestly don't think Gordon or anyone else has attacked you or your methods. You're excited about your new program; Gordon is enthusiastic about the method he has been using for a time. No insult was intended, or implied, IMO.
After all, we are all on the same side, correct?
Peace to all. Merry Christmas to all."
What the heck is wrong with everybody? Is there a full moon or something in the water????
Noel, in which sentence did I imply that Boris was interested in the least in profit?--he has posted many, many, many educational videos to youtube, and as we all know, they're free to view and download and view again. Of course he hopes to earn a few dollars with his expertise. As we all do during our careers. Noel, I am certain that my friend Boris wasn't insulted by anything I said. So why are you defensive on his behalf? Granted, I felt compelled to come to my friend Gordon's defense when I felt he was being misunderstood by my friend Boris.
Yes, I consider both Boris and Gordon to be my friends--heck, I consider every massage therapist in the nation to be my friend! After all, aren't we brothers and sisters of a relatively small, oft-maligned, sometimes-praised family of massage & bodywork practitioners?
This is the Christmas season. Let's direct our ire at those outsiders who besmirch our profession.
merry Christmas, friend Noel.
Noel Norwick said:Gary: FYI - You are mistaken to believe that what Boris offers is just another new program or profit motivated & trademarked methodology. What he suggests is not based his obviously passionate opinions & personal experience, it's based on carefully validated Soviet medical research, his Soviet active & passive rehabilitation and injury prevention education and having been a clinical Soviet, Israeli and USA medical and sports massage provider. Through diligent practice he learned how to consistently provide therapeutically positive outcomes in what was a lethally unforgiving political society.
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Dear Therese.
First of all thank you very much for post. As much I am following your posts, In general you are very tolerant and polite, most likely what was happened at my discussion got you to certain point. Back in my old country, at a time of professional discussion he wouldn't survive even one second , because most of the members will post protests to destruction, like you did. It because of everyone want to learn from topic. Or just leave site if one don't have interest in the topic . Thank you for raising voice. I never had nothing with Gordon, just felt obligated to correct his sometime nonsense claims, because didn't want some beginners therapists to adopt this ideas, and to continue to repeat it with other professionals who in such a case immediately will dismiss them, and of course never will refer patients. My biggest problem with Gordon, is nonstop distractions, at the time absolutely ignoring topic of discussion.
In my original post I described situation with our industry, as well proposed idea how to get recognition, and to change this not good condition. Usually one when reading the post,can agree with me,or one can propose some new ideas,or maybe will propose his/her opinion in regards of other causes for this condition or disagree with what I have expressed in my original post. But if one disagree, one must explain it, in acceptable way why he/she disagree. The practitioners who reading it can learn from it and a lot. I am sorry, until this point Gordon didn't offered nothing but distraction of professional discussion . Both Gary and Gordon, posted promise not to come back. Let's hope for this. In day or two I will post some additional information . the bottom line point, is to somehow get recognition which is patients referrals for our treatment. I am positive that additional to my idea there is many others additional one . Again thanks for post.
Best wishes.
Boris
Therese Schwartz said:Thanks to Boris, Noel, Daniel, Laura Allen and others who work to keep things on track here. I would like to reiterate that this is a public forum - accessible to anyone who wants to read it. It would be great if everyone who read the postings thought "wow, those people are educated, professional and have it together." Instead, those of us who want to learn something have to sort through insane postings from people having personal issues with each other. Some of us are hard headed enough to keep trying and others just give up - a loss to themselves and their clients.
Gordon - have your battle with Boris in private. I'm up front about what I've learned from you, but also have been frustrated enough with you to give up temporarily on this site. You make it difficult for the rest of us to get what we need here. Before you flame me for posting this, remember that you specifically asked us to let you know if you cause us problems. When you post about what you know and what you do, we all benefit.
Gary - I totally commend you on what you are doing! Very few people have the drive to start a new career late in life. Kudos, really! However, please stay on topic.
Before any of you point out that this post isn't on topic - yes, I know that. But I needed to say something about this.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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http://www.drsteinhealing.com/doctor/chiropractor/22L/encino-chirop... This is the soft tissue work I do... Along with many other Doctors, chiropractors and osteopathic physicions. Some very prominant in the industry I might add. I can give you their phone numbers if you want? You can call them stupid arrogant and non professional if you want. .. .. This is the highest level soft tissue work I have ever encounterd.
Boris Prilutsky said:Gary. When Dr. Ross started discussion, on adequate treatment of trigger points, Gordon interrupted, absolutely in the destructive way how he did at this discussion. I mean started telling how he in five minutes can solve any problem, and absolutely disregarded topic subject. You picked up the site and you where very disrespectful and rude to Dr. Ross. Then I interrupted with good advice to you something like:
Gary you are student, even not in practice, therefore for you to address in so disrespectful way MD, who’s PhD study was dedicated to medical massage related subject, who is great hands-on practitioner and until day of today practicing medical massage, is not appropriate. Also I explain to you that “clasp knife reflex” that Gordon claiming as a therapy, is a result, of very difficult CNS disease. I also explained to you that millions of people, suffering from skeleton muscular pains, and to apply trigger point therapy as a part of orthopedic massage, is extremely important, but this people thank God do not suffering from extremely difficult neurological disease that resulting “clasp knife reflex”, and Gordon claiming he using “clasp knife reflex” for trigger point therapy is absolutely nonsense, nonprofessional and damaging to use language /terminology, because no medical health practitioner will accept us as a serious healthcare practitioners. It will be a disgrace for us to say something like this. To my very pleasant surprise you did listen to me, and it apologized to Dr. Ross for being rude to him. At the time I respected you very much . Because if person can realize the mistake, to change mine, and to apologize ,is telling about person’s qualities.
Did you read Gordon’s posts?????? after posting many replies, that most was about how good he is, he admitted, that he didn't read the original post, but finally after reading my original post he decided that everyone who after being in practice 15 years, knows it. Was this topic of my discussion????? By not reading a topic but posting whatever, is it disrespectful, nonprofessional distractions????? Absolutely.
Maybe you will listen to my advice again. You have to continue to study, in professional discussion participate by asking questions, sharing your experiences at student clinic, and to learn how not to behave, in a way Gordon did.
Gary W Addis said:Noel, FY edification, here is my post in its entirety:
"Boris, I honestly don't think Gordon or anyone else has attacked you or your methods. You're excited about your new program; Gordon is enthusiastic about the method he has been using for a time. No insult was intended, or implied, IMO.
After all, we are all on the same side, correct?
Peace to all. Merry Christmas to all."
What the heck is wrong with everybody? Is there a full moon or something in the water????
Noel, in which sentence did I imply that Boris was interested in the least in profit?--he has posted many, many, many educational videos to youtube, and as we all know, they're free to view and download and view again. Of course he hopes to earn a few dollars with his expertise. As we all do during our careers. Noel, I am certain that my friend Boris wasn't insulted by anything I said. So why are you defensive on his behalf? Granted, I felt compelled to come to my friend Gordon's defense when I felt he was being misunderstood by my friend Boris.
Yes, I consider both Boris and Gordon to be my friends--heck, I consider every massage therapist in the nation to be my friend! After all, aren't we brothers and sisters of a relatively small, oft-maligned, sometimes-praised family of massage & bodywork practitioners?
This is the Christmas season. Let's direct our ire at those outsiders who besmirch our profession.
merry Christmas, friend Noel.
Noel Norwick said:Gary: FYI - You are mistaken to believe that what Boris offers is just another new program or profit motivated & trademarked methodology. What he suggests is not based his obviously passionate opinions & personal experience, it's based on carefully validated Soviet medical research, his Soviet active & passive rehabilitation and injury prevention education and having been a clinical Soviet, Israeli and USA medical and sports massage provider. Through diligent practice he learned how to consistently provide therapeutically positive outcomes in what was a lethally unforgiving political society.
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Thanks for the support!
Therese Schwartz said:Thanks to Boris, Noel, Daniel, Laura Allen and others who work to keep things on track here. I would like to reiterate that this is a public forum - accessible to anyone who wants to read it. It would be great if everyone who read the postings thought "wow, those people are educated, professional and have it together." Instead, those of us who want to learn something have to sort through insane postings from people having personal issues with each other. Some of us are hard headed enough to keep trying and others just give up - a loss to themselves and their clients.
Gordon - have your battle with Boris in private. I'm up front about what I've learned from you, but also have been frustrated enough with you to give up temporarily on this site. You make it difficult for the rest of us to get what we need here. Before you flame me for posting this, remember that you specifically asked us to let you know if you cause us problems. When you post about what you know and what you do, we all benefit.
Gary - I totally commend you on what you are doing! Very few people have the drive to start a new career late in life. Kudos, really! However, please stay on topic.
Before any of you point out that this post isn't on topic - yes, I know that. But I needed to say something about this.
-
-
Gordon: Are you a doctor, chiropractor or osteopathic physician? If not, educational standards and legal scope of practice regulations make it unlikely that you are doing exactly what they do. Additionally, by stating that practitioners of these professions perform the "highest level of soft tissue work" you have ever encountered, you make clear what you think of massage practitioners. Now, I'm curious why you are bothering to interact with us?
Gordon J. Wallis said:http://www.drsteinhealing.com/doctor/chiropractor/22L/encino-chirop... This is the soft tissue work I do... Along with many other Doctors, chiropractors and osteopathic physicions. Some very prominant in the industry I might add. I can give you their phone numbers if you want? You can call them stupid arrogant and non professional if you want. .. .. This is the highest level soft tissue work I have ever encounterd.
Boris Prilutsky said:Gary. When Dr. Ross started discussion, on adequate treatment of trigger points, Gordon interrupted, absolutely in the destructive way how he did at this discussion. I mean started telling how he in five minutes can solve any problem, and absolutely disregarded topic subject. You picked up the site and you where very disrespectful and rude to Dr. Ross. Then I interrupted with good advice to you something like:
Gary you are student, even not in practice, therefore for you to address in so disrespectful way MD, who’s PhD study was dedicated to medical massage related subject, who is great hands-on practitioner and until day of today practicing medical massage, is not appropriate. Also I explain to you that “clasp knife reflex” that Gordon claiming as a therapy, is a result, of very difficult CNS disease. I also explained to you that millions of people, suffering from skeleton muscular pains, and to apply trigger point therapy as a part of orthopedic massage, is extremely important, but this people thank God do not suffering from extremely difficult neurological disease that resulting “clasp knife reflex”, and Gordon claiming he using “clasp knife reflex” for trigger point therapy is absolutely nonsense, nonprofessional and damaging to use language /terminology, because no medical health practitioner will accept us as a serious healthcare practitioners. It will be a disgrace for us to say something like this. To my very pleasant surprise you did listen to me, and it apologized to Dr. Ross for being rude to him. At the time I respected you very much . Because if person can realize the mistake, to change mine, and to apologize ,is telling about person’s qualities.
Did you read Gordon’s posts?????? after posting many replies, that most was about how good he is, he admitted, that he didn't read the original post, but finally after reading my original post he decided that everyone who after being in practice 15 years, knows it. Was this topic of my discussion????? By not reading a topic but posting whatever, is it disrespectful, nonprofessional distractions????? Absolutely.
Maybe you will listen to my advice again. You have to continue to study, in professional discussion participate by asking questions, sharing your experiences at student clinic, and to learn how not to behave, in a way Gordon did.
Gary W Addis said:Noel, FY edification, here is my post in its entirety:
"Boris, I honestly don't think Gordon or anyone else has attacked you or your methods. You're excited about your new program; Gordon is enthusiastic about the method he has been using for a time. No insult was intended, or implied, IMO.
After all, we are all on the same side, correct?
Peace to all. Merry Christmas to all."
What the heck is wrong with everybody? Is there a full moon or something in the water????
Noel, in which sentence did I imply that Boris was interested in the least in profit?--he has posted many, many, many educational videos to youtube, and as we all know, they're free to view and download and view again. Of course he hopes to earn a few dollars with his expertise. As we all do during our careers. Noel, I am certain that my friend Boris wasn't insulted by anything I said. So why are you defensive on his behalf? Granted, I felt compelled to come to my friend Gordon's defense when I felt he was being misunderstood by my friend Boris.
Yes, I consider both Boris and Gordon to be my friends--heck, I consider every massage therapist in the nation to be my friend! After all, aren't we brothers and sisters of a relatively small, oft-maligned, sometimes-praised family of massage & bodywork practitioners?
This is the Christmas season. Let's direct our ire at those outsiders who besmirch our profession.
merry Christmas, friend Noel.
Noel Norwick said:Gary: FYI - You are mistaken to believe that what Boris offers is just another new program or profit motivated & trademarked methodology. What he suggests is not based his obviously passionate opinions & personal experience, it's based on carefully validated Soviet medical research, his Soviet active & passive rehabilitation and injury prevention education and having been a clinical Soviet, Israeli and USA medical and sports massage provider. Through diligent practice he learned how to consistently provide therapeutically positive outcomes in what was a lethally unforgiving political society.
-
-
My goodness.....You havent even experienced the techniques, and you judge? Give me a break? I do soft tissue work... That is soft tissue work. I'ts brilliant..It is well within the scope of our license.,.. Dr. Kaufman(the founder),my teacher, is a continuing educational provider for massage therapists, physical therapists and accupunturists, Its all leagal beagal dude..You can keep doing what you do.. Its all good .Call Kaufman on the phone if you want and freak out on him...But it is the most advanced soft tissue work that I HAVE PERSONALLY EVER ENCOUNTERD in the nearly thrity years of doing this kind of work.. And I have worked for ten years in a medical clinic with medical doctors and chiropractors. Two years in NewZealand working on Japanese tourists, and fourteen years working in a beautiful spa here in Alaska. Yea, I dont no why I bother even to come in here.. Its actually good if Im the only massage therapist that knows this stuff. So just ignore everything Ive said.. . But I keep getting attacked in here. And unfortunalely Im not a high enough conscousness person just to let it go..Gawd I wish I was... Just stop attacking me personally, and I wont come back in here I promis.. Then you will be rid of me.. And you can continiue doing what you are doing. Please send all your attacks to Dr. Kaufman. And I appologize to all in here that I have offended..It wasnt my intention....I usually love everybody. I'm 57 years old and have only done two things sucsessfully in my life... One was raising my son, the other is being a massage therapist.. And I am too passionate about it. Its almost all I have.
Gordon: Are you a doctor, chiropractor or osteopathic physician? If not, educational standards and legal scope of practice regulations make it unlikely that you are doing exactly what they do. Additionally, by stating that practitioners of these professions perform the "highest level of soft tissue work" you have ever encountered, you make clear what you think of massage practitioners. Now, I'm curious why you are bothering to interact with us?
Gordon J. Wallis said:http://www.drsteinhealing.com/doctor/chiropractor/22L/encino-chirop... This is the soft tissue work I do... Along with many other Doctors, chiropractors and osteopathic physicions. Some very prominant in the industry I might add. I can give you their phone numbers if you want? You can call them stupid arrogant and non professional if you want. .. .. This is the highest level soft tissue work I have ever encounterd.
Boris Prilutsky said:Gary. When Dr. Ross started discussion, on adequate treatment of trigger points, Gordon interrupted, absolutely in the destructive way how he did at this discussion. I mean started telling how he in five minutes can solve any problem, and absolutely disregarded topic subject. You picked up the site and you where very disrespectful and rude to Dr. Ross. Then I interrupted with good advice to you something like:
Gary you are student, even not in practice, therefore for you to address in so disrespectful way MD, who’s PhD study was dedicated to medical massage related subject, who is great hands-on practitioner and until day of today practicing medical massage, is not appropriate. Also I explain to you that “clasp knife reflex” that Gordon claiming as a therapy, is a result, of very difficult CNS disease. I also explained to you that millions of people, suffering from skeleton muscular pains, and to apply trigger point therapy as a part of orthopedic massage, is extremely important, but this people thank God do not suffering from extremely difficult neurological disease that resulting “clasp knife reflex”, and Gordon claiming he using “clasp knife reflex” for trigger point therapy is absolutely nonsense, nonprofessional and damaging to use language /terminology, because no medical health practitioner will accept us as a serious healthcare practitioners. It will be a disgrace for us to say something like this. To my very pleasant surprise you did listen to me, and it apologized to Dr. Ross for being rude to him. At the time I respected you very much . Because if person can realize the mistake, to change mine, and to apologize ,is telling about person’s qualities.
Did you read Gordon’s posts?????? after posting many replies, that most was about how good he is, he admitted, that he didn't read the original post, but finally after reading my original post he decided that everyone who after being in practice 15 years, knows it. Was this topic of my discussion????? By not reading a topic but posting whatever, is it disrespectful, nonprofessional distractions????? Absolutely.
Maybe you will listen to my advice again. You have to continue to study, in professional discussion participate by asking questions, sharing your experiences at student clinic, and to learn how not to behave, in a way Gordon did.
Gary W Addis said:Noel, FY edification, here is my post in its entirety:
"Boris, I honestly don't think Gordon or anyone else has attacked you or your methods. You're excited about your new program; Gordon is enthusiastic about the method he has been using for a time. No insult was intended, or implied, IMO.
After all, we are all on the same side, correct?
Peace to all. Merry Christmas to all."
What the heck is wrong with everybody? Is there a full moon or something in the water????
Noel, in which sentence did I imply that Boris was interested in the least in profit?--he has posted many, many, many educational videos to youtube, and as we all know, they're free to view and download and view again. Of course he hopes to earn a few dollars with his expertise. As we all do during our careers. Noel, I am certain that my friend Boris wasn't insulted by anything I said. So why are you defensive on his behalf? Granted, I felt compelled to come to my friend Gordon's defense when I felt he was being misunderstood by my friend Boris.
Yes, I consider both Boris and Gordon to be my friends--heck, I consider every massage therapist in the nation to be my friend! After all, aren't we brothers and sisters of a relatively small, oft-maligned, sometimes-praised family of massage & bodywork practitioners?
This is the Christmas season. Let's direct our ire at those outsiders who besmirch our profession.
merry Christmas, friend Noel.
Noel Norwick said:Gary: FYI - You are mistaken to believe that what Boris offers is just another new program or profit motivated & trademarked methodology. What he suggests is not based his obviously passionate opinions & personal experience, it's based on carefully validated Soviet medical research, his Soviet active & passive rehabilitation and injury prevention education and having been a clinical Soviet, Israeli and USA medical and sports massage provider. Through diligent practice he learned how to consistently provide therapeutically positive outcomes in what was a lethally unforgiving political society.
-
-
Very well said, Gordon.
Gordon J. Wallis said:My goodness.....You havent even experienced the techniques, and you judge? Give me a break? I do soft tissue work... That is soft tissue work. I'ts brilliant..It is well within the scope of our license.,.. Dr. Kaufman(the founder),my teacher, is a continuing educational provider for massage therapists, physical therapists and accupunturists, Its all leagal beagal dude..You can keep doing what you do.. Its all good .Call Kaufman on the phone if you want and freak out on him...But it is the most advanced soft tissue work that I HAVE PERSONALLY EVER ENCOUNTERD in the nearly thrity years of doing this kind of work.. And I have worked for ten years in a medical clinic with medical doctors and chiropractors. Two years in NewZealand working on Japanese tourists, and fourteen years working in a beautiful spa here in Alaska. Yea, I dont no why I bother even to come in here.. Its actually good if Im the only massage therapist that knows this stuff. So just ignore everything Ive said.. . But I keep getting attacked in here. And unfortunalely Im not a high enough conscousness person just to let it go..Gawd I wish I was... Just stop attacking me personally, and I wont come back in here I promis.. Then you will be rid of me.. And you can continiue doing what you are doing. Please send all your attacks to Dr. Kaufman. And I appologize to all in here that I have offended..It wasnt my intention....I usually love everybody. I'm 57 years old and have only done two things sucsessfully in my life... One was raising my son, the other is being a massage therapist.. And I am too passionate about it. Its almost all I have.
Gordon: Are you a doctor, chiropractor or osteopathic physician? If not, educational standards and legal scope of practice regulations make it unlikely that you are doing exactly what they do. Additionally, by stating that practitioners of these professions perform the "highest level of soft tissue work" you have ever encountered, you make clear what you think of massage practitioners. Now, I'm curious why you are bothering to interact with us?
Gordon J. Wallis said:http://www.drsteinhealing.com/doctor/chiropractor/22L/encino-chirop... This is the soft tissue work I do... Along with many other Doctors, chiropractors and osteopathic physicions. Some very prominant in the industry I might add. I can give you their phone numbers if you want? You can call them stupid arrogant and non professional if you want. .. .. This is the highest level soft tissue work I have ever encounterd.
Boris Prilutsky said:Gary. When Dr. Ross started discussion, on adequate treatment of trigger points, Gordon interrupted, absolutely in the destructive way how he did at this discussion. I mean started telling how he in five minutes can solve any problem, and absolutely disregarded topic subject. You picked up the site and you where very disrespectful and rude to Dr. Ross. Then I interrupted with good advice to you something like:
Gary you are student, even not in practice, therefore for you to address in so disrespectful way MD, who’s PhD study was dedicated to medical massage related subject, who is great hands-on practitioner and until day of today practicing medical massage, is not appropriate. Also I explain to you that “clasp knife reflex” that Gordon claiming as a therapy, is a result, of very difficult CNS disease. I also explained to you that millions of people, suffering from skeleton muscular pains, and to apply trigger point therapy as a part of orthopedic massage, is extremely important, but this people thank God do not suffering from extremely difficult neurological disease that resulting “clasp knife reflex”, and Gordon claiming he using “clasp knife reflex” for trigger point therapy is absolutely nonsense, nonprofessional and damaging to use language /terminology, because no medical health practitioner will accept us as a serious healthcare practitioners. It will be a disgrace for us to say something like this. To my very pleasant surprise you did listen to me, and it apologized to Dr. Ross for being rude to him. At the time I respected you very much . Because if person can realize the mistake, to change mine, and to apologize ,is telling about person’s qualities.
Did you read Gordon’s posts?????? after posting many replies, that most was about how good he is, he admitted, that he didn't read the original post, but finally after reading my original post he decided that everyone who after being in practice 15 years, knows it. Was this topic of my discussion????? By not reading a topic but posting whatever, is it disrespectful, nonprofessional distractions????? Absolutely.
Maybe you will listen to my advice again. You have to continue to study, in professional discussion participate by asking questions, sharing your experiences at student clinic, and to learn how not to behave, in a way Gordon did.
Gary W Addis said:Noel, FY edification, here is my post in its entirety:
"Boris, I honestly don't think Gordon or anyone else has attacked you or your methods. You're excited about your new program; Gordon is enthusiastic about the method he has been using for a time. No insult was intended, or implied, IMO.
After all, we are all on the same side, correct?
Peace to all. Merry Christmas to all."
What the heck is wrong with everybody? Is there a full moon or something in the water????
Noel, in which sentence did I imply that Boris was interested in the least in profit?--he has posted many, many, many educational videos to youtube, and as we all know, they're free to view and download and view again. Of course he hopes to earn a few dollars with his expertise. As we all do during our careers. Noel, I am certain that my friend Boris wasn't insulted by anything I said. So why are you defensive on his behalf? Granted, I felt compelled to come to my friend Gordon's defense when I felt he was being misunderstood by my friend Boris.
Yes, I consider both Boris and Gordon to be my friends--heck, I consider every massage therapist in the nation to be my friend! After all, aren't we brothers and sisters of a relatively small, oft-maligned, sometimes-praised family of massage & bodywork practitioners?
This is the Christmas season. Let's direct our ire at those outsiders who besmirch our profession.
merry Christmas, friend Noel.
Noel Norwick said:Gary: FYI - You are mistaken to believe that what Boris offers is just another new program or profit motivated & trademarked methodology. What he suggests is not based his obviously passionate opinions & personal experience, it's based on carefully validated Soviet medical research, his Soviet active & passive rehabilitation and injury prevention education and having been a clinical Soviet, Israeli and USA medical and sports massage provider. Through diligent practice he learned how to consistently provide therapeutically positive outcomes in what was a lethally unforgiving political society.
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Gordon. This discussion is not about trigger points . This site http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/response-to-knot-i...
was dedicated to trigger points, where you claimed “clasp knife reflex methodology” as an ultimate method of trigger point therapy. This is classic example of destruction from topic . I would ignore your post If you wouldn't propose again wrong information that the other can maybe consider after reading proposed article by this chiropractor. Why every time you bringing some think unacceptable? First of all non of, osteoporotic medicine school, chiropractic school, physical therapy schools , teaching massage therapy and therefore they cannot be authority in this methodology. Secondarily statement in article:"Areas of reduced circulation in muscles are called trigger points. They are painful when pressed." dismissing fellow who wrote this article. This is absolutely wrong definition of trigger points. In cases of skeletal muscular disorders, In fact all components of painful area, including muscles, connective tissue etc. ,suffering from reduced/insufficient blood supply and are painful, but trigger points is a pinpoint localization of sharper level of pain. During histological /biopsy studies, trigger points’ morphology was established. All text books on the subject, including Travel and Simons text supporting what Dr.Ross and I wrote in article including definitions of trigger points. Trigger points Can be found not only in muscles, but also in other anatomical components of painful region. Looks like you searching any website that can make up whatever and then you suggesting that this is “miracle “ work you are doing. Please stop doing it. How this fellow who wrote this article establish his claims?? Did he conduct some research? Is his article is a preliminary study report of this research? What he proposing may be, will inhibit trigger points, will put them to sleep stage, which is terrible and dangerous condition. Please read in articles or at my posts explanations why not adequate treatment of trigger points is dangerous.
http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/response-to-knot-i...
All what I am writing, and teaching is based on solid research, and most important including clinical experiences for many decades.
http://www.scienceofmassage.com/dnn/som/journal/1110/medical.aspx
But the final point is, trigger point therapy is not really exact topic of this discussion. In your last post you did apologize for destruction. I do appreciate and accept your apology. But make some meaning to this apology and do not distract anymore. Thank you very much.
Merry Christmas, happy Kwanzaa, happy Hanukkah, and a very happy , and prosper and peaceful 2012.
Boris
Gordon J. Wallis said:http://www.drsteinhealing.com/doctor/chiropractor/22L/encino-chirop... This is the soft tissue work I do... Along with many other Doctors, chiropractors and osteopathic physicions. Some very prominant in the industry I might add. I can give you their phone numbers if you want? You can call them stupid arrogant and non professional if you want. .. .. This is the highest level soft tissue work I have ever encounterd.
Boris Prilutsky said:Gary. When Dr. Ross started discussion, on adequate treatment of trigger points, Gordon interrupted, absolutely in the destructive way how he did at this discussion. I mean started telling how he in five minutes can solve any problem, and absolutely disregarded topic subject. You picked up the site and you where very disrespectful and rude to Dr. Ross. Then I interrupted with good advice to you something like:
Gary you are student, even not in practice, therefore for you to address in so disrespectful way MD, who’s PhD study was dedicated to medical massage related subject, who is great hands-on practitioner and until day of today practicing medical massage, is not appropriate. Also I explain to you that “clasp knife reflex” that Gordon claiming as a therapy, is a result, of very difficult CNS disease. I also explained to you that millions of people, suffering from skeleton muscular pains, and to apply trigger point therapy as a part of orthopedic massage, is extremely important, but this people thank God do not suffering from extremely difficult neurological disease that resulting “clasp knife reflex”, and Gordon claiming he using “clasp knife reflex” for trigger point therapy is absolutely nonsense, nonprofessional and damaging to use language /terminology, because no medical health practitioner will accept us as a serious healthcare practitioners. It will be a disgrace for us to say something like this. To my very pleasant surprise you did listen to me, and it apologized to Dr. Ross for being rude to him. At the time I respected you very much . Because if person can realize the mistake, to change mine, and to apologize ,is telling about person’s qualities.
Did you read Gordon’s posts?????? after posting many replies, that most was about how good he is, he admitted, that he didn't read the original post, but finally after reading my original post he decided that everyone who after being in practice 15 years, knows it. Was this topic of my discussion????? By not reading a topic but posting whatever, is it disrespectful, nonprofessional distractions????? Absolutely.
Maybe you will listen to my advice again. You have to continue to study, in professional discussion participate by asking questions, sharing your experiences at student clinic, and to learn how not to behave, in a way Gordon did.
Gary W Addis said:Noel, FY edification, here is my post in its entirety:
"Boris, I honestly don't think Gordon or anyone else has attacked you or your methods. You're excited about your new program; Gordon is enthusiastic about the method he has been using for a time. No insult was intended, or implied, IMO.
After all, we are all on the same side, correct?
Peace to all. Merry Christmas to all."
What the heck is wrong with everybody? Is there a full moon or something in the water????
Noel, in which sentence did I imply that Boris was interested in the least in profit?--he has posted many, many, many educational videos to youtube, and as we all know, they're free to view and download and view again. Of course he hopes to earn a few dollars with his expertise. As we all do during our careers. Noel, I am certain that my friend Boris wasn't insulted by anything I said. So why are you defensive on his behalf? Granted, I felt compelled to come to my friend Gordon's defense when I felt he was being misunderstood by my friend Boris.
Yes, I consider both Boris and Gordon to be my friends--heck, I consider every massage therapist in the nation to be my friend! After all, aren't we brothers and sisters of a relatively small, oft-maligned, sometimes-praised family of massage & bodywork practitioners?
This is the Christmas season. Let's direct our ire at those outsiders who besmirch our profession.
merry Christmas, friend Noel.
Noel Norwick said:Gary: FYI - You are mistaken to believe that what Boris offers is just another new program or profit motivated & trademarked methodology. What he suggests is not based his obviously passionate opinions & personal experience, it's based on carefully validated Soviet medical research, his Soviet active & passive rehabilitation and injury prevention education and having been a clinical Soviet, Israeli and USA medical and sports massage provider. Through diligent practice he learned how to consistently provide therapeutically positive outcomes in what was a lethally unforgiving political society.
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You're welcome!
Noel Norwick said:Thanks for the support!
Therese Schwartz said:Thanks to Boris, Noel, Daniel, Laura Allen and others who work to keep things on track here. I would like to reiterate that this is a public forum - accessible to anyone who wants to read it. It would be great if everyone who read the postings thought "wow, those people are educated, professional and have it together." Instead, those of us who want to learn something have to sort through insane postings from people having personal issues with each other. Some of us are hard headed enough to keep trying and others just give up - a loss to themselves and their clients.
Gordon - have your battle with Boris in private. I'm up front about what I've learned from you, but also have been frustrated enough with you to give up temporarily on this site. You make it difficult for the rest of us to get what we need here. Before you flame me for posting this, remember that you specifically asked us to let you know if you cause us problems. When you post about what you know and what you do, we all benefit.
Gary - I totally commend you on what you are doing! Very few people have the drive to start a new career late in life. Kudos, really! However, please stay on topic.
Before any of you point out that this post isn't on topic - yes, I know that. But I needed to say something about this.
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