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Have Arrogant / Stubborn LMT's Created the Market for Massage Franchises?
First off let me say that I honestly don't personally care what any other Therapist's charge, nor do I concern myself w/ how well or how much business someone else is generating.
I've been in Healthcare now for over 17yrs, and my view towards things tend to be a little different from the avg professional. I believe that any and all therapy no matter the modality should be available to everyone.
I've seen and heard from other LMT's over time that these Massage Franchises are hurting the profession, either by their reduced rates which arent' actually reduced at all, or by the volume of business they do on a daily basis.
I've often wondered when I travel to more rural areas why their local LMT's charge the National Avg w/ regards to basic rates, aren't things in more run down, poorer regions usually cheaper than lets say in the big cities?!
I relocated to a region a few years ago and got hammered by local LMT's for undercutting the local market, well as I told many of them what I charge is no one elses business, I was constantly referred to as the Massage Envy of my region. So I moved again a few months ago to a larger city and it's littered w/ those Massage Envy's so I took a job based on my curiosity to see what all the hub bub was about, and what their Therapists were like.
Folks there is a place and enough business for all of us to charge what ever it is we feel our time is worth.
These Massage Franchises simply came into being all beacuse IMHO, due to LMT"s not marketing themselves well, and not being available. We are in the "I want it and I want it now " era.
Fact is folks these franchises are no cheaper than the National avg, sure they have gimmicks to lure in the client, but it's the lack of availability and in ability to easily find a therapist that has allowed these franchises to flourish.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on
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Most of the luxuries, and many of the so-called comforts of life, are not only indispensable, but positive hindrances to the elevation of mankind. With respect to luxuries and comforts, the wisest have ever lived a more simple and meager life than the poor. ...None can be an impartial or wise observer of human life but from the vantage ground of what we should call voluntary poverty. Of a life of luxury the fruit is luxury, whether in agriculture, or in commerce, or literature, or art. There are nowadays professors of philosophy, but not philosophers. Yet is admirable to to profess because it was once admirable to live. To be a philosopher is not to have subtle thoughts, nor even to found a school, but so to love wisdom as to live accordingly to its dictates, a life of simplicity, independence, magnanimity and trust. It is to solve some of the problems of life, not only theoretically but practically.
..What is the nature of luxury which enervates and destroys nations? Are we sure there is none in our lives?
(Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854)
I thought letting Thoreau speak on this might be appropriate.
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Permalink Reply by Chance Ryan on
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U hit the preverbial nail on the head.
After my injury and my stay in the hospital from what I've been told by friends and family members, was my entire personality had changed, I knew my views on life obviously had a major upheaval, but before my TBI, I was so career focused on making a certain amt of money, and or getting a certain job w/ a particular facility etc.
Well all I can say now is that I look at everything so differently, I was smart w/ my money early on, and had some things bounce my way as well about 10+yrs ago, so money essentially will never be or should never be (knock on wood) an issue for me, my brother and I have made sure that his and one day my childrens futures will be taken care of and if he and I are smart we can hopefully steam roll it out several generations. I do however live on a budget, my friends tell me it's easy for me to have the attitude I do about money when my situation is what it is, yet they don't know the true and full extent of my situation, they just know tid bits, and when I tell them that I'd adopted this view well before things changed for me, they of course don't believe me.
I live by a set of "LIFE RULES" as I like to call it some of which you've previously posted, Treat Every One Like You'd Want To Be Treated, Live Life Like It's the Only One You Will Ever Get, Work To Live NOT Live To Work!!!, and most importantly is Approach Every Day W/ A Smile cause Smile and Litterally The Whole World Does Smile W/ You.
Over the past 8yrs this has served me very well. I don't get upset/angry (unless someone hurts a loved one or I'm dealing w/ plain evel), I never raise me voice in anger (grew up living that one), and I try to never argue cause most often we end up off topic arguing about something totally off point.
I've seen some horrible things in my short time on this planet and I see no reason to fill it w/ any more negativity.
I like you but what ever it is I need to be comfortable, which that term it self has different meaning to different people.
I spend very little money on myself on "STUFF" I do like to enjoy things ie trips, vacations, like my recent visit to I believe your stomping grounds if I recall correctly Colorado, right? On those trips i can drop a nice dime which has little to do w/ me and more to do usually to do w/ the rates tourists are charged.
I actually despise talking about money cause people use it as a status symbol, or look at it as a measure of what kind of person you are. I recall reading an article that listed the top most respected career professions out there, and both Doctor and Nurses were listed right at the top, the article went on to explain their methodology and there it was financial standing or the perception of it, boy if people knew the truth that for starters most Doctors are broke or darn close due to student loans and cost of going into business mal practice et, and Nurses have never made any decent money until the past what 6+yrs. But the public's perception was that these jobs produced people w/ coin.
When I feel someone is attempting to pigeon hole me into a box or financial group, I'm almost sad for them.
I went out on a date about a month ago right after moving here, and oddly enough when she found out about my medical background and now that I'm doing massage she assumed I was either a broke hippie or a trust fund baby, even going as far to ask me about my annual earnings.
Now let me say this when people ask me questions usually I state first and foremost that I will answer anything you ask me, just so long as you don't hold the answer against me. So when people ask about money to me of course I don't give specifics, but I tell them it's not an issue, but when they press that's when I know they aren't interested in knowing ME, but what they feel makes me.
Sorry for going off on a long tangent.
www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/have-arrogant-stubborn-lm...">I'm just curious about something, Chance. Of course you don't have to answer if you don't want to.
I charge market price or below for two reasons 1: I value integrity and treat others the way I want to be treated. Since I want top service at fair prices for myself I offer the same to others. 2: I have what I want and I want what I have. The concept of acquiring more money holds absolutely no appeal to me. In fact, it seems very strange. It means more complication, higher taxes, and chasing materialism that ultimately leads to unhappiness.
I am 100% debt-free including my home. I take plenty of vacations and am set for retirement. I have never struggled to earn a living or pay a single bill. I did all of this by living below the American standard of living. If I can't afford to pay CASH for something, I save for it because credit devalues your work. I never buy new cars, name brands and don't waste money on cable TV, gym memberships etc.
Yet I'm the envy of everyone who knows me. I live in a funky 50s house in a desirable neighborhood and always seem to be off having fun somewhere around the world. I'm happy EXPERIENCING life because I don't want STUFF so I don't make myself miserable chasing it.
Does this sound like you, too?
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OUTSTANDING POINT!
This is why I came to a sight like this cause in my recent interactions w/ MT"s, the question always comes up "So What Do You Charge" to be honest here, I have no set rate some clients have paid me w/ free dental visits, some w/ free haircuts, and goodness knows I do a lot of free and volunteer work, I have some that have paid me $100, the only time I set my rates are when I dealing w/ Medical Facilities because I know how a Healthcare Mgr thinks, they often determine the value of something by it's price/rate vs actually checking into it when they are pressed for time or what not.
But usually the alphabet behind my name is from what I've been told gets me most of my contracts, and my attention to detail and promptness, as well as honesty keeps my contracts, or did keep them in place.
I guess I was seeing so many negative and infighting amongst other MT's on the East Coast that I wondered is US wide, and sadly it appears so, but I find it refreshing that it's certainly not like that w/ everyone as evident here w/ you nice folk.
Stefanie Adams said:Thank you for shattering my pre-conceived notions about you, Julie. I needed that! Darcy, you are so right. Without the client there is no money. That's why Chance is so correct about tailoring your prices to your particular clients' needs.
I have been mentoring MTs a while now, most of whom struggle in the business. I have never struggled a day financially (physically, mentally & emotionally a different story!!). I find that a focus on the following helps every single person I've mentored 1: meeting psychological needs with psychological solutions instead of material wealth, and 2: drastically reducing expenses.
The overwhelming majority of the folks I've mentored have kept prices the same or lowered them after achieving some degree of success with those two things. I find that high prices are not the answer to financial struggles. You end up in the same cycle of earn - spend too much - pay too many taxes - pay to fix the stuff you bought - earn some more to pay for it all. Most people do this in an attempt to meet psychological needs.
I would like to see more conversation on this instead of "how much do you charge".
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It's always refreshing to get honesty, never chage that!
Lisa said:well s***...i'm in the minority here!! I definitely WANT more. :)
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Permalink Reply by Gina A. Liccardo on
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I'm sorry but I find it kind of comical that you are comparing other healthcare professionals to massage therapists saying that they aren't concerned with their competitors. Those professionals don't have to be because they are going to be compensated by insurance at the end of the day regardless they will be paid and compensated for their worth. They don't have to because they get paid what they are worth and they are treated as accomplished healthcare professionals. When you are working at a spa, there is no insurance involved.
I also think that it is laughable that you think that people are being arrogant because they know their worth and what their services are worth. There are many ways that people can receive massage at an affordable price without offering a full hour of massage for half the price.
10 years ago in 2002, my starting base wage was $25/hr. ME's base rate today is $15-20. Although the economy has been rough, there are plenty of ways to offer massage therapy to the masses while contributing to the health, well beging and fiscal success of the massage therapist. We are moving in the wrong direction.
I think it is absolutely ridiculous that these corporations pay their therapists so little and I do think it is sad that you don't get it. At the end of the day everyone must choose for themselves. I choose to commute 3 hours a day extra to get paid what I'm worth and to not support or work for one of these franchises. I would rather make the extra effort not only for the pay that I am worth but for principal. The choice I make not only effects me it effects my industry and fellow LMTs. There is no reason therapists should be driven from their own profession by owners who have no concept of what it is to be an LMT. Guaranteed if they experienced a week of being an LMT; they would paying us what we are worth in a hot second.
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btw anyone who feels the same way can sign this petition
https://www.change.org/petitions/the-massage-franchise-increase-pay...
and join us; we "arrogant LMTs" are taking action. https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/LMTsagainstthefranchise/?fref=ts
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Permalink Reply by Cassandra Cravens on
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Prices for services have always fluctuated. While massage has been a luxury in the US for sometime it's becoming a practical part of healthcare and general wellness. As that happens various types of practitioners will provide various types of services at varying prices and all the varying kinds of clients out there will, well, shop around. Some will automatically go for the lowest price, others will actively look for the best deal for the money which might not be the lowest price.
Business is business- small business vs big corporations, everything that is bought or sold will run the gamut. Therapists who create relationships with their clients and their communities will have successful careers. This is true whether the therapists work for a large company or work from home. Just like every other industry, when someone figures a way to make a living and charge less the rest of us have to rise to the occasion or find a new line of work.
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One more thing I want to add. I don't think you can speak on this issue because you built and established your client tele way before the franchise came into the equation. If you had to hustle as hard as LMTs do nowadays from scratch, I believe you would have a different view. I also think you need to consider that not everyone in this profession wants to be an entrepeneur, in fact, I think many would prefer working for someone else and have them handle the marketing. I have heard stories of LMTs who were forced into entrepeneurship to survive and make a living because of the low payrate they received from a company like ME. At the end of the day, people that tend to have the most compassion, have usually experienced the pain of circumstance. It's easier to be compassionate when you have experienced the pain of circumstance and it's easier to be more critical when you have had a fairly smooth journey. It is easy for you to call us arrogant because quite frankly you haven't really experienced the impact yourself. If you had experienced a direct effect on your business you might feel differently.
I have to say that your post quite frankly comes off as arrogant itself, blaming LMTs for not being great entrepeneurs and marketers, when quite frankly that is not what they are trained in nor had a desire to be. Most people that go to school to earn a degree and a license go so that they can have a higher paying job and an accredited title so that they can support themselves in life and practice in a profession that they love. Why go to school for massage therapy if you are going to be paid $15/hr; the same amount as someone with no schooling? You are going to go to school, take out a student loan and continue to pay licensing fees, testing fees, insurance fees continuing education fees and on top of all of that pay for marketing as well? The truth is is that if it was any other profession with a degree and licensure; our argument would be just but as usual, because we are LMTs we have no argument. Come on!
How many times and from how many angles can LMTs be cut down? Now it's our fault that the franchise is successful? Ridiculous. At the end of the day, we are not victims and will not laydown for this kind of injustice because that is exactly what it is. We have constantly had to fight for every inch we have received. From insurance, to respectability as a legitimate healthcare professional, to the title itself of massage therapist and we will continue to fight for what we are worth in compensation not because we are arrogant but because we worked to acquire at the very least a base rate of $30/hr from an employer. Is that too much to ask? Absolutely not.
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Or they have to say, I won't stand for being underpaid and fight the establishment. The only person making a living here are the owners of the franchises and the corporation. If things get any worse, someone will start to form a union. It's coming down to surviving at this point. That will be the next progression and that will be the rise to the occassion. I saw statistics of one massage franchise paying their therapist a base rate of $7.92. Quite frankly, I really had no idea just how bad it was until I really started researching it in depth. It's pretty unbelievable. Another franchise's intro rate $29.95. It's really no wonder LMTs are starting to lose it.
Cassandra Cravens said:Prices for services have always fluctuated. While massage has been a luxury in the US for sometime it's becoming a practical part of healthcare and general wellness. As that happens various types of practitioners will provide various types of services at varying prices and all the varying kinds of clients out there will, well, shop around. Some will automatically go for the lowest price, others will actively look for the best deal for the money which might not be the lowest price.
Business is business- small business vs big corporations, everything that is bought or sold will run the gamut. Therapists who create relationships with their clients and their communities will have successful careers. This is true whether the therapists work for a large company or work from home. Just like every other industry, when someone figures a way to make a living and charge less the rest of us have to rise to the occasion or find a new line of work.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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Actually those franchises may have helped the profession by making massage more popular.. But what gets me is this. I'm a massage therapist. I'm an employee and make way more money then $10 or $12 or $15 an hour. And I fix people almost every day in one massage session what other types of health care prividers fail to fix even after weeks and months of their therapy. Yet they make ten times the money I make and drive BMWs.. lol I'm not complaining...But how do you think I would feel if someone offered me only $10 an hour. I made more then that as a student thirty years ago. Gosh in the 90s for ten years I worked in a Chiropractic office and made $127 an hour. Im not arguing with anyone.. Just commenting. I hear therapists working for $10 or $12 an hour.. I'm speachless. I know new therapists need to start somewhere. And maybe those are good places to start. But the true value of an experienced massage therapist is way beyond twelve bucks an hour. Check my comment on the FUTURE of MASSAGE thread.
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Permalink Reply by Philippa Dodson on
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I have been a solo practitioner since 1991. Including my initial 500 hours of training and continuing education I have spent well over $20,000 to become expert in the field. That is on top of college and after a 25 year career in healthcare. I do not believe it is "arrogant" to charge what I am worth, which is $80 an hour in a large urban market. I have not raised my prices in several years in recognition of the recession and charge by my time, so an advanced modality like Lymph Drainage (Vodder Certified and Advanced training with Dr. Chikly) is the same price as therapeutic massage. I also offer a discount package for people paying up front for 6 or 12 sessions. A lot of people think I "make" $80 an hour. They do not take into consideration the overhead and expense of running a business. A lot of time is dedicated to records, cleaning, advertising etc and it is not cheap to maintain an office, utilities, as well. All those things must be taken into account when putting a value on what I do. Although the public is more accepting of massage than they were 20 or 30 years ago, many still do not understand the difference between a skilled therapist and one who just works to get by. Yes, perhaps a lotion application is only worth $20, but a massage from a person who actually has some expertise is worth WAY more. The way the franchises undermine experienced therapists is by promoting the idea that an el cheapo massage is the same as an expert massage. Many people who get the cheap version for their first experience will indeed conclude that "massage is not worth much". Why would schools and professional organizations want to support the massage franchises? To me it is very short sighted. Once massage is no longer considered a profession where one might make a living wage no one will be willing to put in the time, training and expense to go to massage school or join a professional organization. It would be like getting a PhD to flip burgers. Also, the argument that franchise are a "good place to start" has no merit because the franchises do everything in their power to not help a person build a practice so they can move on, including a non-compete clause that does not allow an MT to "steal" the franchises clients. Also, being "fed" clients does nothing to help develop market skills. Massage has never been an easy place to make a good living. Many people go to school and find it is not for them because they do not have the skill, stamina or interpersonal abilities, so the cream would rise to the top. The unsuitable (therefore unsuccessful) would move on. Now there is a place for those unable to make it on their own...franchises. And they taint the entire profession by working for a pittance and introducing the world to substandard skills.
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